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The Feud That Sparked the Renaissance: How Brunelleschi and Ghiberti Changed the Art World

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Joining the bestsellers Longitude and Galileo’s Daughter, a lively and intriguing tale of two artists whose competitive spirit brought to life one of the world’s most magnificent structures and ignited the Renaissance The dome of the Santa Maria del Fiore, the great cathedral of Florence, is among the most enduring symbols of the Renaissance, an equal to the works of Leonar Joining the bestsellers Longitude and Galileo’s Daughter, a lively and intriguing tale of two artists whose competitive spirit brought to life one of the world’s most magnificent structures and ignited the Renaissance The dome of the Santa Maria del Fiore, the great cathedral of Florence, is among the most enduring symbols of the Renaissance, an equal to the works of Leonardo and Michelangelo. Its designer was Filippo Brunelleschi, a temperamental architect and inventor who rediscovered the techniques of mathematical perspective. Yet the completion of the dome was not Brunelleschi’s glory alone. He was forced to share the commission with his archrival, the canny and gifted sculptor Lorenzo Ghiberti. In this lush, imaginative history—a fascinating true story of artistic genius and personal triumph—Paul Robert Walker breathes life into these two talented, passionate artists and the competitive drive that united and dived them. As it illuminates fascinating individuals from Donatello and Masaccio to Cosimo de’Medici and Leon Battista Alberti, The Feud That Sparked the Renaissance offers a glorious tour of 15th-century Florence, a bustling city on the verge of greatness in a time of flourishing creativity, rivalry, and genius.


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Joining the bestsellers Longitude and Galileo’s Daughter, a lively and intriguing tale of two artists whose competitive spirit brought to life one of the world’s most magnificent structures and ignited the Renaissance The dome of the Santa Maria del Fiore, the great cathedral of Florence, is among the most enduring symbols of the Renaissance, an equal to the works of Leonar Joining the bestsellers Longitude and Galileo’s Daughter, a lively and intriguing tale of two artists whose competitive spirit brought to life one of the world’s most magnificent structures and ignited the Renaissance The dome of the Santa Maria del Fiore, the great cathedral of Florence, is among the most enduring symbols of the Renaissance, an equal to the works of Leonardo and Michelangelo. Its designer was Filippo Brunelleschi, a temperamental architect and inventor who rediscovered the techniques of mathematical perspective. Yet the completion of the dome was not Brunelleschi’s glory alone. He was forced to share the commission with his archrival, the canny and gifted sculptor Lorenzo Ghiberti. In this lush, imaginative history—a fascinating true story of artistic genius and personal triumph—Paul Robert Walker breathes life into these two talented, passionate artists and the competitive drive that united and dived them. As it illuminates fascinating individuals from Donatello and Masaccio to Cosimo de’Medici and Leon Battista Alberti, The Feud That Sparked the Renaissance offers a glorious tour of 15th-century Florence, a bustling city on the verge of greatness in a time of flourishing creativity, rivalry, and genius.

30 review for The Feud That Sparked the Renaissance: How Brunelleschi and Ghiberti Changed the Art World

  1. 5 out of 5

    Jo Walton

    This is a fun readable book about Brunelleschi and Ghiberti that doesn't assume the reader has any prior knowledge at all, but assumes that the reader isn't an idiot. It explains without talking down, an excellent thing. If you are interested in architecture, and perspective, or the lives of artists, or what a golden age is, read this. I'd recommend this to anyone. I read it in Florence, which was perfect, because I could keep going to look at things. I utterly disagree with some of Walker's aes This is a fun readable book about Brunelleschi and Ghiberti that doesn't assume the reader has any prior knowledge at all, but assumes that the reader isn't an idiot. It explains without talking down, an excellent thing. If you are interested in architecture, and perspective, or the lives of artists, or what a golden age is, read this. I'd recommend this to anyone. I read it in Florence, which was perfect, because I could keep going to look at things. I utterly disagree with some of Walker's aesthetic judgements, but that isn't the slightest bit a problem.

  2. 4 out of 5

    Deborah Ideiosepius

    The Fued that sparked the Renaissance is a solidly written, exquisitely researched book about a pivotal point in the history of Florence, Italy which can be seen as the original seed from which the Renaissance grew. The primary focus of the book is the point in time in which two young Florentine artists developed: Filippo Brunelleschi became the person to 'rediscovered' the ancient European techniques of mathematical perspective in art, the perspectives that first started to bring the art of the The Fued that sparked the Renaissance is a solidly written, exquisitely researched book about a pivotal point in the history of Florence, Italy which can be seen as the original seed from which the Renaissance grew. The primary focus of the book is the point in time in which two young Florentine artists developed: Filippo Brunelleschi became the person to 'rediscovered' the ancient European techniques of mathematical perspective in art, the perspectives that first started to bring the art of the Renaissance to life in painting and sculpture. Despite this amazing legacy there are no existing paintings (that I know of) from Brunelleschi, his later life was devoted to architecture, the most famous example being designing and constructing the great dome of the Santa Maria del Fiore Cathedral. The second artist he book focuses on is Lorenzo Ghiberti, who won a competition to design a set of bronze doors for a church, he won against Brunelleschi and spent the next fifty years making these doors and the whole of his career associated with them. He also was an artistic trend setter in several other ways. These two major players also were masters or associates for the better known names (such as Donatello) who became better known as part of the renaissance and these are the two players in this alleged 'Feud'. However, I do feel that a better title might have been 'The feud that may or may not have existed with no evidence either way' or maybe the subtitle 'How Brunelleschi and Ghiberti changed the art world'. Maybe that was the original title and the publishers wanted something with more pizaz. This is an exceedingly well written book, formidably well researched narrative full of historical factual detail and meticulous descriptions of architecture. It took me a long time to read because I am not terribly conversant with Italian history or with architecture and I had to read it carefully to get the information straight in my head. I certainly know way more about the origins of the Renaissance that before.

  3. 4 out of 5

    Mary Beth

    It feels like Walker decided to use everything he found in his research, rather than do some trimming that would have made the narrative a bit less meandering. This meandering and the overall style undermine "the feud" aspect; especially since it felt like there were "oh, wait, I need to mention the feud!" moments. As some of the other reviewers mention, it does read a bit like a weaker version of Brunellesci's Dome, which I found the more interesting read overall. It feels like Walker decided to use everything he found in his research, rather than do some trimming that would have made the narrative a bit less meandering. This meandering and the overall style undermine "the feud" aspect; especially since it felt like there were "oh, wait, I need to mention the feud!" moments. As some of the other reviewers mention, it does read a bit like a weaker version of Brunellesci's Dome, which I found the more interesting read overall.

  4. 4 out of 5

    Claire

    It was an interesting historical saga, but the guy's writing leaves a little to be desired. Every piece of art was "bold" or "daring", and I just don't see it. Also, I'm still confused by his construction descriptions of the Duomo -- and I'm a civil engineer... It was an interesting historical saga, but the guy's writing leaves a little to be desired. Every piece of art was "bold" or "daring", and I just don't see it. Also, I'm still confused by his construction descriptions of the Duomo -- and I'm a civil engineer...

  5. 4 out of 5

    Heather

    Filippo Brunelleschi and Lorenzo Ghiberti were Italian artists in the early 1400s. They were rivals, they competed for the same jobs, and sometimes they worked together. Their art marks the beginning of the Renaissance. The Feud That Sparked the Renaissance was often textbooky and I occasionally found my eyes to be glazing over as I read. But I learned so incredibly much. I’ve never been particularly into art so so much of it was new to me. I recommend reading this book to anyone interested in a Filippo Brunelleschi and Lorenzo Ghiberti were Italian artists in the early 1400s. They were rivals, they competed for the same jobs, and sometimes they worked together. Their art marks the beginning of the Renaissance. The Feud That Sparked the Renaissance was often textbooky and I occasionally found my eyes to be glazing over as I read. But I learned so incredibly much. I’ve never been particularly into art so so much of it was new to me. I recommend reading this book to anyone interested in art and the early Renaissance.

  6. 5 out of 5

    Jennifer (JC-S)

    ‘Something happened in Florence six hundred years ago,something so unique and miraculous that it changed our world forever. We call it the Renaissance, a rebirth of ancient art and learning.’ This story begins in the waning days of the 14th century, and tells the story of the competition between Lorenzo Ghiberti and Filippo Brunelleschi to design and produce a new set of bronze doors for the Church of St John the Baptist (The Baptistery) in Florence. Ghiberti won this particular competition, but ‘Something happened in Florence six hundred years ago,something so unique and miraculous that it changed our world forever. We call it the Renaissance, a rebirth of ancient art and learning.’ This story begins in the waning days of the 14th century, and tells the story of the competition between Lorenzo Ghiberti and Filippo Brunelleschi to design and produce a new set of bronze doors for the Church of St John the Baptist (The Baptistery) in Florence. Ghiberti won this particular competition, but was largely eclipsed by Brunelleschi who went on to become the architect of the dome of Florence’s cathedral, Santa Maria del Fiore. Mr Walker describes the competition between the two as personal and hence as a feud. I see it more as a conflict of ideas rather than purely as a personal feud. Brunelleschi is credited with inventing perspective and used this in his design of the dome. It was this modern approach to engineering that enabled Santa Maria del Fiore to be crowned with a dome of such magnificence and beauty that it has become one of the most enduring symbols of the Renaissance. It seems that Ghiberti, by contrast, created his beautiful work by drawing on the past. I’m not entirely comfortable with Mr Walker’s view of Brunelleschi and Ghiberti as sparking the Renaissance, attractive as it is to think of an artist and an architect ushering in this new age. I prefer to see the Bapistery doors and the Dome symbols of the Renaissance, rather than the catalyst for it. I enjoyed reading this book: it added to my understanding of Florence during this period. Jennifer Cameron-Smith

  7. 5 out of 5

    Dreepa

    I wanted to like this book. The very premise that there was a 'feud' .. well he never wrote about it beyond the fact that one artist lost one commission. Hardly a feud. I did like learning the history from the early Renaissance a period I do know know much about. Also the story was very choppy .. didn't really follow just one artist... it was vaguely chronological but... just needed some more editing I will look into this period of history more though. I wanted to like this book. The very premise that there was a 'feud' .. well he never wrote about it beyond the fact that one artist lost one commission. Hardly a feud. I did like learning the history from the early Renaissance a period I do know know much about. Also the story was very choppy .. didn't really follow just one artist... it was vaguely chronological but... just needed some more editing I will look into this period of history more though.

  8. 5 out of 5

    Trish

    This book drags at many point, but is interesting where he gets into the meat of Brunelleschi's work. Not sure there was an actual feud. Seems more like competition where commissions were at times hard to obtain. Wondering where the notes are for the author's thoughts. If this is non- fiction they are missing. This book drags at many point, but is interesting where he gets into the meat of Brunelleschi's work. Not sure there was an actual feud. Seems more like competition where commissions were at times hard to obtain. Wondering where the notes are for the author's thoughts. If this is non- fiction they are missing.

  9. 4 out of 5

    Carrie

    Compelling story, but the author seems to have fallen in love with every fact he came across making for slog at times.

  10. 5 out of 5

    Ramesh Naidu

    A magnificent book , makes me want to drop everything and visit Florence to see all the works that these great men created. The narrative reads like a gripping novel . I cannot recommend it enough

  11. 4 out of 5

    Brandi Thompson

    I’m not entirely sure how I feel about this one. I didn’t dislike it, but nor did I find it particularly engaging. The title feels slightly like “click bait” and the whole “feud” is pretty loose. It does have a lot of interesting history about the beginning of the renaissance... but, it’s not a major page turner and nor does it encourage you to read more about any of the subjects.

  12. 5 out of 5

    Terra Smith

    Walker's narrative of the intertwining lives of Brunelleschi and Ghiberti is certainly entertaining, and the book is very well written. In a book of this size it would be impossible to include the type of contextualizing and nuanced analysis that I so desperately was waiting for. A pleasant read, but fails to give what it promises: the "spark". Walker's narrative of the intertwining lives of Brunelleschi and Ghiberti is certainly entertaining, and the book is very well written. In a book of this size it would be impossible to include the type of contextualizing and nuanced analysis that I so desperately was waiting for. A pleasant read, but fails to give what it promises: the "spark".

  13. 4 out of 5

    Meghana

    After reading this book, I feel as if I was there and I gained a lot of knowledge on the artists’ work. The book was written very well and had a nice flow to it. It’s definitely a book I would recommend reading.

  14. 5 out of 5

    Ameya Warde

    This was actually quite interesting! For a look into the Florence of the time as much as the people and art.

  15. 5 out of 5

    Karla

    Ugh...this was like reading an academic dissertation. Nothing against dissertations, but that's just not the kind of read that I wanted. DNF audiobook. Ugh...this was like reading an academic dissertation. Nothing against dissertations, but that's just not the kind of read that I wanted. DNF audiobook.

  16. 4 out of 5

    Alison

    Well researched, but a bit long in the tooth and the title is total clickbait.

  17. 5 out of 5

    Justin Daniel

    I am a huge fan of the Renaissance. Granted, not enough to go to a Renaissance faire. Regardless, I have read a few books in the last year relating to this time period. Irregardless, this was not the best, but still interesting. It has been speculated by some that the Renaissance officially started when Brunelleschi created the famous cupola in Florence, Italy. The largest of its kind in the entire world at the time (and still the largest brick dome in the world), the decision to cease the gothi I am a huge fan of the Renaissance. Granted, not enough to go to a Renaissance faire. Regardless, I have read a few books in the last year relating to this time period. Irregardless, this was not the best, but still interesting. It has been speculated by some that the Renaissance officially started when Brunelleschi created the famous cupola in Florence, Italy. The largest of its kind in the entire world at the time (and still the largest brick dome in the world), the decision to cease the gothic architectural and open the competition to other means of making the cupola would thrust the Renaissance into full motion. When Brunelleschi looked to the domes of Rome as inspiration for his dome, it would “spark” the Renaissance. But there is more to the story than this. In fact, what brought Brunelleschi to this point was a competition years earlier against a rival who would be a thorn in his side for decades: Ghiberti. In a competition to make the baptistry doors of the Cattedrale di Santa Maria del Fiore (Cathedral of Saint Mary of the Flower), both Ghiberti and Brunelleschi entered into the famous duel. Ghiberti submitted his version of the doors first. Several months later, Brunelleschi provided an even more beautiful rendition of what the doors could be. Since most of the men on the panel had already decided on Ghiberti’s panels, going back on their word would be in bad taste. Therefore, Ghiberti’s panel were selected to be cast into bronze and put on the Cathedral. This would motivate Brunelleschi and be one of the main reasons why he had to outdo Ghiberti. In the end, Brunelleschi got the last laugh; the dome is much more picturesque than the door. Overall, this book was alright. It was difficult to follow some of the story with the names, dates, and places in audiobook form. 3/5.

  18. 4 out of 5

    Simone Fournier

    For my second summer book, I read The Feud That Sparked the Renaissance: How Brunelleschi and Ghiberti Changed the Art World, by Paul Robert Walker. This book centers around two great artists of the early Italian Renaissance Period, Filippo Brunelleschi and Lorenzo Ghiberti. Although these two young men came from very different origins, they both entered the Florentine art scene around the same time, in competition over who would design the bronze North Doors of the Florence Baptistery. Ghiberti For my second summer book, I read The Feud That Sparked the Renaissance: How Brunelleschi and Ghiberti Changed the Art World, by Paul Robert Walker. This book centers around two great artists of the early Italian Renaissance Period, Filippo Brunelleschi and Lorenzo Ghiberti. Although these two young men came from very different origins, they both entered the Florentine art scene around the same time, in competition over who would design the bronze North Doors of the Florence Baptistery. Ghiberti won the competition, but it was through this competition that Ghiberti and Brunelleschi's artistic styles were demonstrated. In the sample competition piece, Ghiberti's style is gentle and reflective of the pre-Renaissance Byzantine style while Brunelleschi's sample piece takes a new realistic flare. This style became Brunelleschi's signature style that influenced many other sculptors and painters of this era. After the competition Filippo and Lorenzo parted ways, Lorenzo working on the bronze doors, and Filippo supposedly traveling to Rome with his student Donatello to study architecture. The two artists met again in a competitive spirit to craft statues representing each Florentine guild in the Church of Orsanmichele. The two split ways once again, mentoring other budding artists and focusing on personal projects. However, the greatest competition between Brunelleschi and Ghiberti was sparked by the building of the great dome on the Church of Florence. Both men were hired to create designs for this dome, as it was exceptionally large and heavy. Filippo's design, involving inner and outer domes for support was used. As construction commenced, Ghiberti was released from the project because he was deemed unnecessary in the building process. Ghiberti then began work on a second pair of doors. He was later rehired to look for a solution when some of the supporting walls began to crack from the immense weight of the domes. The problem was addressed with metal support rods, yet Brunelleschi felt that it took away from the raw beauty of the cathedral. As the construction of the dome neared completion, the speed of construction slowed, and Brunelleschi and Ghiberti took on other projects, including yet another competition over the lantern that tops the great dome. Brunelleschi's design won this competition, and he began work on the lantern. Filippo Brunelleschi died April 15th 1446, and was buried under the cathedral, described as Filippo the Architect. Ghiberti continued to work on his second set of doors which feature more experimental designs and techniques that Ghiberti worked on. Lorenzo then served on a Florentine counsel, but was released due to discrepancies about who his father was. Following the completion of his second set of doors, Lorenzo died December 1, 1455. The feud between these two exceptional artists caused them to strive for greater achievements and knowledge in the arts in attempts to “one up” each other, including working with perspective and adding math into their masterpieces and designs. Their higher level of expertise inspired those around them to search for greater knowledge, therefore sparking the Renaissance movement. This book contained interesting information, but was very drawn out and over-packed with facts. I would have enjoyed this book more if it included pictures of the great masterpieces studied and explained thoroughly throughout this book. Paul Robert Walker's writing style is quite repetitive and dry in certain parts of the book. I feel that with the captivating and culturally interesting material he is discussing, his writing style could be livelier and information could be presented in a more enthralling manner.

  19. 5 out of 5

    Pooja

    Fun & inspiring read with a timeless story about genuises & talented men pieced together from historical artifacts & events. Great introduction to the early Renaissance period & people & art. It's a story from a culture of high creativity & competition about two men in particular who were as different as they can be but whose art & achievements & personalities history reveres equally and other high-achieving men in their circles that they inspired & worked with. Highly recommended...great opport Fun & inspiring read with a timeless story about genuises & talented men pieced together from historical artifacts & events. Great introduction to the early Renaissance period & people & art. It's a story from a culture of high creativity & competition about two men in particular who were as different as they can be but whose art & achievements & personalities history reveres equally and other high-achieving men in their circles that they inspired & worked with. Highly recommended...great opportunity to gain insight into some great (early) Renaissance men. I actually listened to the audio book and loved the narrator.....er....or rather hardly noticed him during the listening cause his voice and & style & diction fit so beautifully for the book text. I accompanied the book by googling for any images found online for any of the art & structures mentioned in the book - it was a good adventure.

  20. 5 out of 5

    Kris

    It was a good book with a great overview of the artists of the early Quattrocento, I was especially happy about the biographical look at Masaccio. However, if one is interested in the actual construction of Il Duomo and why it took one hundred years to complete, one should read "Brunelleschi's Dome by Ross King. Not too mention, Walker makes it sound like Brunelleschi pulled all of his geometry and technical skills out of his ass. He rarely touches on Brunelleschi's friendship with Toscanelli (o It was a good book with a great overview of the artists of the early Quattrocento, I was especially happy about the biographical look at Masaccio. However, if one is interested in the actual construction of Il Duomo and why it took one hundred years to complete, one should read "Brunelleschi's Dome by Ross King. Not too mention, Walker makes it sound like Brunelleschi pulled all of his geometry and technical skills out of his ass. He rarely touches on Brunelleschi's friendship with Toscanelli (only mentions it in passing in a note in the appendix)or any other contacts with other thinker, mathematicians or artists, other than Donatello and Ghiberti.But all in all it was a good introduction to the early Renaissance art world and the lives of the people who created it.

  21. 4 out of 5

    Adrienne

    A fascinating look at the rivalry between Brunelleschi and Ghiberti beginning with the competition to design the Baptistery doors by each submitting one panel for the door with the theme the Sacrifice of Isaac. Both panels are exquisite but Ghiberti was given the commission to create the doors. 15 years later, Brunelleschi begins work on Florence’s icon – the dome of Santa Maria del Fiore cathedral. Walker combines this artistic rivalry with Renaissance intrigue, and discusses other Renaissance A fascinating look at the rivalry between Brunelleschi and Ghiberti beginning with the competition to design the Baptistery doors by each submitting one panel for the door with the theme the Sacrifice of Isaac. Both panels are exquisite but Ghiberti was given the commission to create the doors. 15 years later, Brunelleschi begins work on Florence’s icon – the dome of Santa Maria del Fiore cathedral. Walker combines this artistic rivalry with Renaissance intrigue, and discusses other Renaissance artists such as Donatello. Anyone who enjoys this book will also like “Brunelleschi’s Dome” by Ross King.

  22. 4 out of 5

    Rachel

    Interesting, easy to read. So much documentation is lost to history and time, but the author makes lively use of what's available. He does make a bit more emotional conjecture than I expected on how the artists "must have felt", etc. I would have liked some more maps and illustrations of the many art pieces which were discussed in varying degrees of detail. A number are included in the center, but I would have enjoyed even more, and interspersed in the relevant text. In all, it was worth the coup Interesting, easy to read. So much documentation is lost to history and time, but the author makes lively use of what's available. He does make a bit more emotional conjecture than I expected on how the artists "must have felt", etc. I would have liked some more maps and illustrations of the many art pieces which were discussed in varying degrees of detail. A number are included in the center, but I would have enjoyed even more, and interspersed in the relevant text. In all, it was worth the couple of hours to read it, and made me want to spend a long visit in Florence.

  23. 4 out of 5

    David Eppenstein

    Unless you are interested in architectural history and in particular the architecture of the Italian Renaissance then this book will bore you to tears. I, on the other hand, did find the book informative and enlightening. I particularly enjoyed delving into the personalities of these two Renaissance giants and learning about the customs and bureaucracy of Renaissance Florence. A good book if you're into this period of history. Unless you are interested in architectural history and in particular the architecture of the Italian Renaissance then this book will bore you to tears. I, on the other hand, did find the book informative and enlightening. I particularly enjoyed delving into the personalities of these two Renaissance giants and learning about the customs and bureaucracy of Renaissance Florence. A good book if you're into this period of history.

  24. 5 out of 5

    Amber Tritabaugh

    This is difficult to listen to without prior knowledge of Renaissance Florence, but it pairs really well with the Khan Academy coverage of the same topic. Listen to the book, and when key characters and buildings are introduced, read/watch a brief article/video for context. Between the two resources, I learned a LOT.

  25. 4 out of 5

    Paul

    This was kinda interesting but it wasn't really holding my attention that much. There was also a decent amount of speculation in there where the historical record is apparently silent, but at least it was marked out at such. The story of Filippo Brunelleschi and the Fat Woodcarver was pretty funny - it's good to know that even in the 14th century, people still found gaslighting people hilarious. This was kinda interesting but it wasn't really holding my attention that much. There was also a decent amount of speculation in there where the historical record is apparently silent, but at least it was marked out at such. The story of Filippo Brunelleschi and the Fat Woodcarver was pretty funny - it's good to know that even in the 14th century, people still found gaslighting people hilarious.

  26. 5 out of 5

    Sandra Strange

    Fascinating account of the feud between Brunellesci (same as in Brunelleschi's Dome) and its consequences: Brunelleschi's revolutionizing painting and architecture, helping add to the gathering wave of the Renaissance. Fascinating account of the feud between Brunellesci (same as in Brunelleschi's Dome) and its consequences: Brunelleschi's revolutionizing painting and architecture, helping add to the gathering wave of the Renaissance.

  27. 4 out of 5

    Jim

    An entertaining and compelling read that gives the history of the beginning or the Renaissance from the perspective of the lives of the amazing individuals individuals involved, that brings the subject matter to a more real feel than any other book I've read on the subject. An entertaining and compelling read that gives the history of the beginning or the Renaissance from the perspective of the lives of the amazing individuals individuals involved, that brings the subject matter to a more real feel than any other book I've read on the subject.

  28. 5 out of 5

    Craig Masten

    It's been awhile since I read this book, but as I recall I found it an entertaining and informative study of how these two men created their masterpieces of Renaissance art and architecture. All you ever want to know and more on the techniques employed. It's been awhile since I read this book, but as I recall I found it an entertaining and informative study of how these two men created their masterpieces of Renaissance art and architecture. All you ever want to know and more on the techniques employed.

  29. 5 out of 5

    Rebecca

    Inspiring. A must for all who love the Art of Science or the Science of Art or simply the hazy idea thereof.

  30. 5 out of 5

    Caulyne B

    I thought this book was great before I went to Florence. Then I reread it and got so much more out of it!!

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